"What Makes a Good Forger"

Dec 30, 2012
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Lifted this from my blog and transplanted it here. Just articulating my thoughts regarding the forge community as a whole. Give it a read, and if you enjoy, follow my blog "Secrets, Forging and Austrailia".

The subject of who is a good forger or what makes a good forger is always a hot topic in the niche community of Halo that is Forge. Its quite the vibrant underground scene with more diverse communities than possibly any other aspect of the game, and with its fare share of drama as well. Different communities will lash out about how community X can't forge a good map, while community X might bombast community Y because they don't make aesthetically pleasing enough maps, and community Z might accuse both of being amateurish because neither can make maps that don't suffer from performance issues such as frame drops. It's all rather silly actually.

I've more or less gotten away from the forge communities these past couple months, much in part to me being a very abrasive and direct individual, as well as partly because I'm fed up with the various forms of snobbery that go on. In earnest, most forgers have a very under developed understanding of level design as a whole and can only cite to their benefit the works and publishings of fellow forgers. There is a particular niche forge community that has managed to look outside of their self obtained and perpetuated insights to outside sources, but at that it's only a brief guide to level design by Joel McDonald (absolutely top notch guide by the way), yet even that becomes recycled and relied upon excessively, and despite its utility, it's still relatively narrow in scope. Most of these forge communities have out right stagnated and refuse to move forward in learning what it is that makes up level design.

Alright, I've rambled on a bit at this point, it's time I started to get to my point here. I want to explain what makes a truly good forger and why none of these individual communities are correct in their awarding of such titles to their respective members. I'll explain what exactly a forger is, what a level designer is, what core gameplay is and its role in design as well as what map gameplay is and its role in design. I'll conclude with how these different aspects come together and how an understanding and ability to implement them makes a good forger, as well as the loop hole of how a good forger can also exist outside of the scope set by these aspects.

A forger is an individual that utilizes the forge tool available in Halo. This is something that was first made available in Halo 3 and has been brought back in sequential titles. Currently forge is in its third iteration in Halo 4. Forge is a very limited map editor that can be likened to playing with Legos or building blocks. It's especially constrictive in regards to game engine performance, as various ways of object usage can easily contribute to sub par frame rate performance. Additionally, forge isn't limited to only map creation. It can also be used for creating artistic pieces, as well as mini-games of sorts. For the most part, when I refer to forge and forgers, it's in regards to map design. Now would be a good time to state that this is where good forgers outside of the perimeters I'm about to set exist, as the tenants of map design do not particularly apply to them.

The rest of this article covers what maps a good forger in the context of map design, or essentially a good level designer that also forgers. It is possible to be a good forger but a poor level designer, or a good level designer but a poor forger. This parallel exists because of the limitations inherent to forge. A good forger understands the tool they are utilizing and are not handicapped by the technological limitations of forge, although in earnest, a good level designer should also understand the tool and not be hindered by it as well... But let us air on the side of forgiveness here.

Additionally, regarding forge's limitations as a design tool, a good forger can make adequate use of the objects available to craft aesthetically pleasing maps, or maps that simply look good to the eye. They are able to work with the various textures and colors (or lack there of) and bring them together in a manner that adds character to a map as well as lends itself to player orientation. It should be noted, that both aesthetic character and player orientation are criteria that need to be met, neither should be addressed with out the addressing of the other. All the while, performance must also be maintained. Balancing these three aspects are pivitol accomplishments that separate the good forger from the average and below.

Here out the article addresses design principles not directly tied to forge as they're tenants that apply to level design as a whole. A good forger should also strive to be a good map designer, as this is what truly sets the great apart from all the rest. A great forger meets all the criteria of being a "good forger" as well as the criteria for being a good level designer. In this sense, map forgers have it harder than the average forger as they have more criteria and standards to meet in order to excel in their particular "field".

A a fundamental level, there are two types of gameplay, those being Map Gameplay and Core Gameplay. Understanding of both is a necessity. Many people think of gameplay simply as "gameplay", but this does not sufficiently describe the Core game mechanics in reference to the player tools, nor does it adequately address the enviroment, or map, that the player is dropped into in order to leverage the tools. (Sjoerd De Jong).

The Core Gameplay consists of the basic rules and toolsets provided by the game. It is what defines the weapon characteristics, player movement, hit boxes, aim magnetism and how the individual interacts with the world as a whole. Understanding kill times and basic movement settings is vital to understanding the Core Gameplay elements, which is required to design a map that is fitting with the game. A designer has little impact on the Core rules. They already exist and cannot be easily modified by the level designer. It is the designer's job to accept the Core Gameplay and then adjust the Map Gameplay to leverage to Core Gameplay. (ibid).

Map Gameplay is specific to the player's toolset within the game, and it defines when and where they can use their toolset to their advantage or disadvantage. The Map Gameplay defines the floorplan, or where players can move, where weapons are placed, and essentially how Core Gameplay is interpreted. It exists to augment and provide variety to the Core Gameplay. A map should not merely complement the Core Gameplay, but also give players a reason to play the map. There should exist a reason for players to choose map X instead of map Y, and the map should offer more than the simple ability of running and shooting as those abilities are given by the game by itself. The different ways a designer can enhance the Core Gameplay will determine if people will want to play the map or not, and ultimately, enjoy it or not. To reitterate, Map Gameplay and Core Gameplay need to be congruent and flow together. A map designed for a fast past twitch shooter like Quake doesn't play the same as it would in Halo and vice versa. The designer must understand the game they're designing for and the intimate relation between Core Gameplay and Map Gameplay.

A forger that has a knowledgeable understanding of these various concepts and the ability to put them into practice is what is a great forger. A forger that understands the mechanics of forge and can build with the tool without performance issues is a good forger. The key differentiating factor here is the breadth of understanding the individual forger has of level design, and most specifically Core Gameplay and Map Gameplay. In this regard, the various forge communities need to come down off their high horses and realize there's a lot more to forging than they think and that their breadth of understanding is no where near as broad as they believe it to be. We're all amateurs here with plenty left to still learn, especially considering how few actually have an inkling of understanding of the game's Core Mechanics or how to intimately modify them through Map Design. At the end of the day, the deepest argument in support of one style of design or another generally consists of "I think this design is good because it is good", or rather circular logic intended to perpetuate the schools of thoughts that have lead to the stagnation of the forge community. It's high time the forge community started looking outside their box at new resources and learning more about the game they're designing for, if not to at least be able to articulate better why their take on design is good for the game.

Cheers!
 
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MockKnizzle

Get Mockfucked
Dec 24, 2012
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So basically what you're saying is that people need to get better at level design, and that the "forge community" as a whole isn't as good at design as they think they are.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but what exactly is the point?
 
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Dec 30, 2012
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You're completely off the mark... No surprise there. I'm not drumming on that we need to get better, or that no one is as good as they think they are... There's more to it.

The point is there is no forge elite. Too many of these communities have their take on what's a "good forger", but any one that knows how to work forge adequately is a "good forger". Some of these communities confuse level design with forge and claim only good designers are forgers, but in reality that doesn't mean anything if they can't forge adequately. Furthermore, some communities think any impressive design is a good design, but if it doesn't translate to Halo well then it isn't a good design as it doesn't augment the core gameplay, and thus creator isn't a "good forger".

Essentially, this elitism in the forge community is stupid. I'm disappointed you weren't able to gleam that much off the post... But then again, you are one of the forge "elite".
 

MockKnizzle

Get Mockfucked
Dec 24, 2012
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Am I? I don't seem to remember ever claiming to be one of the "elite"... In fact, I'd argue that throughout the time I've been a part of the forging community I've tried to be as inclusive and empowering as possible. Care to explain why you think I am?

Aside from that personal attack (which I don't really think was warranted, as A) I agree with pretty much everything you say and B) your large article is easily misconstrued) , I think my question still stands: Okay, yes, so elitism in the forging community is bad. So what? I don't see the discussion here. Are we supposed to just agree? Or are you suggesting a change, specifically in this community because you posted here?

Just saying...
elitism in the forge community is stupid.
isn't particularly constructive.
 
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Nah. This community is good. Talking 'bout the forge community as a whole though. Bloody awful lot.
It's everything, from the way we talk about each other and interact on a daily basis, to how we "judge" maps. The titles the various forgers give each other and themselves, everything.

As for what you're to make of it... It's an open ended article. It's to get people thinking. To stir conversation or debate. But it's easiest to come down and throw accusations at the author... Zone in on small things, such as lack of choice wording, straw manning for the sake of diminishing the authors credibility for example...

I wouldn't say that I attacked you, at least no more than you did me. Matter of perception. If I have to walk on glass with how I talk to you or any one else though, I'd appreciate you give me the same consideration. And just saying, but your title "BTB Guru" construes that you're some sort of elite. Food for thought.
 

MockKnizzle

Get Mockfucked
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I mean, saying "elitism is stupid" and then calling me an elitist is basically just calling me stupid, but whatever. I suppose that's to be expected.

As far as the title goes (apart from being a silly little joke among staff), I like to think of myself as being a teacher of sorts. There are plenty of newcomers to forge here on this site, and there's nothing I'd like more than to pass on some of the knowledge I've gained from my personal forging experiences to help them grow and improve and ultimately make tons of great maps. I've already got some plans in the works to set up one-on-one sessions with new forgers to sit down and walk through their maps - what works well, what could be improved, and so on. I'm by no means asserting that I'm somehow better than everyone else, but the fact is that myself and a lot of the staff here have forged a rather sizable quantity of maps throughout 3, Reach, and now Halo 4, and along the way we've learned lessons and picked up on things that someone new to forge wouldn't necessarily know. While an elitist community would try to push others down, I think we here at HaloCustoms are trying to cultivate a community that lifts others up through direct involvement between people of all levels of forging skill and the open sharing of knowledge in general.

In short, all I really wanna do is help people out. My particular area of experience is BTB, so that's what I try to help with.
 
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You're intent is admirable, but it doesn't change a thing that you're part of this elitist paradigm. Who are you to say your maps are quality, or better, than others? That you're one of the better forgers? Or that your colleagues are some how better? It's not a matter whether or not you're trying to share what you've learned, it's that you're on a pedestal above every one else.

At least here you guys are trying to help others... Where as other forge communities are more intent with the self perpetuation of their elitist structure. The worst of it being the MLG/THC crowd, as ever.

Wait a few days and brew over it... I'm taking this somewhere with my next blog post.
 

Skyward Shoe

Platinum in Destiny
Dec 24, 2012
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I've been watching this thread and I don't really think Mock fits into this category Schnitzel. I've known people who are really like this, and they are a serious pain to deal with, some of them even refused to talk to me or others who weren't part of their group. There's a difference between an elitist mindset and simply having been around longer and having some more experience.

A lot of these people (mock, duck, myself, and a huge number of other people from FH, other sites,and just over Live) have been forging for a few years, and so we've made enough mistakes and successes (mostly mistakes) that we now have some experience in designing for Halo in the Forge system. It's not that we're better, it's just that we've been around long enough to have some idea about how to use the tool better and how to design for the game better. As others spend more time forging, playing, and studying the game, they naturally gain more experience too. We all know that we have lots of room to improve as well. In my eyes at least, there is no elite group versus everyone else (though I'm sure some people see themselves that way) but simply a range of people who have more or less experience in different areas, with the amount of experience for each person constantly changing. There is no pedestal, it's just simple fact that we currently have more prior knowledge in certain areas of forge and level design than someone who has not spent much time with those areas. Simply put, yes, someone who has been doing something longer and has put more into it will probably be better than those who have not. A college professor is in fact better at their subject than a freshman student 99% of the time. That's not to say that the student can't become better.

For this reason, we don't try to display our maps as better than others. If we feel we've made something work well we are proud of it, but we keep a straight head on and look for ways to keep improving it. When judging the quality of a map we try to take it objectively. If we think our map is better, it's not because we made it, it's because we've played the maps, looked over them, and understand why one plays better under certain criteria. We do like to show our maps off though, as anyone does, and often times what we design plays better than what others who are just getting started are doing. Others with experience may make maps better than ours, and usually because we share this experience we end up becoming friends or colleagues. This isn't an elitist group, it's a group of people of a similar skill level trying to learn from each other, and often times to help others of lesser experience learn. The "Elitist forgers," in my opinion, are those that believe they are better than others because of some inborn talent, skill, etc... They believe they simply are better, and may or may not believe that others can reach that. They see themselves as privileged and think their maps should always be featured, put into MM, or given some prize of sorts, because everything they make with their "golden hands" must play well. This isn't our mindset. We're not expecting a ton of recognition, even if we do get it at times. We know we have a lot to learn, and that we don't know all that much more than the average forger. But we know that we've learned some things over the past few years and that we want to put that knowledge to good use, both by designing strong maps and by teaching others so they don't ahve to go through all of our past mistakes.
 

Shiralai

Emoticon Guru
Jan 13, 2013
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Honestly there can be no pure definition of good forger. Usually forgers tend to go in three different categories:

-Aesthetic
-Customs/Minigames
-Competitive

Even though I've been forging for over a year now, I do consider myself as a pretty darn decent aesthetic and above average custom/minigame forger; however my competitive forging is lacking. Throughout the year, with my experience being part of a major machinima set designer and meetting wonderful people among the forging community, I've learned quite a few things in sharing ideas, thoughts, opinions, etc. During these meetings with other forgers, I've learned what it takes to be a good forger.

Aesthetics- what makes this one stand out is the details. You know when someone is a great aesthetic forger is when they can come into a map, effortlessly add a few things and make stunningly beautiful to look at. They are the ones who are crying out at 343i about no fine editing in halo 4. They are concerned about details details details to where it might be considered OCD. (hey I'm one of them and I have a few friends that are this way). Usually the trend I found out about the traits a good aesthetic forger posses is creativity in design, artistic, detailed oriented, they go for familiarity of recognizable items, unless its something totally new or abstract, and they tend to have a good sense of structural stability. I think what helped me is my background in structural engineering. I know what looks like it would physically be stable and plausible. If you go into a map and can say something doesn't look right, like giant crates held by a single tiny cable. It doesn't look right, no strength of cable can handle those stresses with that small cross section of area. Sorry engineering side coming in. I can be critical on a few maps that I see but usually because I can see improvements. I'm not saying I'm the best, I always am open for opinions/critiques which one should be in any specialization. But anyways, what I'm saying, what makes a good aesthetic forger is that they're realistic, pay attention to details, open to critiques/suggestions, and are resourceful in making those details look real with the limitations of pieces one is giving. Now if you wanna know if you're a good in this specialization? Usually people ask you for help with their forges, especially machinima or detailed oriented maps.

Customs/minigames (C/M)- Ahhh the customs that make any dead game fun, look at reach, it's alive due to custom and mini game capabilities, even so where I see more of my friends list on halo reach than halo 4. Would have never thought that back in October. Anyways what makes one a good C/M forger is creativity. Sometimes simplicity works, and other times complexity can be the right thing too. What makes a good C/M forger is experience. They know what works, they know how to make a map work fairly quickly with all the little featurettes in the advanced options. They take every day games we see and haloize it for custom game purposes to spread enjoyment. Good ones have plans, run trials, tweak, and experiment. I would say good C/M forgers have patience and are the most adaptive due to the frustration that could happen. However, I think this one is the easiest to be be good at since a good C/M er can get away with being simple but smart. I've had some horse games were they were really simple, but heck of a good time to play on.

Competitive- For me, I honestly suck at competitive games so this is my one weakness. So I'm going to go more one what I've experienced by watching rather than being. Friends that I see do awesome balanced maps tend to share some common traits: organization, know what players want, follows patterns, experience, did I say organization? Don't like to say it, but to me I see a lot of the same patterns done in competitive maps to make the map balanced. 1v1 and 2v2 tend to be symmetrical 98% of the time from the ones I've seen, but it makes sense. With fewer amounts of players, you need to make it balanced and familiar to the player. Otherwise the game would be biased or slow. Bigger maps I do see more of a creative outlet but again similar patterns have been seen. Really good competitive map forgers test their maps multiple times for a few weeks and make tons of tweaks to make the "perfect" map. Although the map is less detailed, the time amount actually spent forging could be the same as aesthetics due to the number of tweaks. The good forgers have had tons of experience and can predict how a map might flow, where chokepoints might be, where power weapons should be placed, vehicles, timing of items, etc. Much more complicated than what I'm used to than my aesthetics lol. I would have to say this group is the hardest to be considered to be good at. You have to know a little bit of aesthetics, a bit about gameplay, and a lot about flow of maps. So you do have to be the most well rounded out of the three. What's a sign that you're a good competitive forger: People stalking your file share or forum posts for your next big update or new map release. Also if you're one of the few lucky ones, features on some larger channels.

Well that's what sums up what I think good forgers are.

*huggles all*
~Shiralai
 
Obviously i'm new here, but i think the whole point of forging is just making interesting stuff out of what your given. It doesn't matter at all how you do it, as long as you think the purpose it was intended for has been served, whether competitive, aesthetic, or whatever else i'm forgetting. Besides, this whole fight about elitism is pointless: the only thing that will come of this is that one person will feel they have won, and are therefore dominant, which is just what we seem to be trying to get away from. I've only made a few maps, but each one was a whole new experience or what you can do with Forge, and/or how to truly challenge a person's descision making process (in terms of which path they take, etc.), in all kinds of ways. That's what I believe Forging should really be about, instead of comparing who is a "better forger" or saying that if someone is popular they are better. This may sound a bit cheesy, but this world is actually cheesy as hell if you look at it for a while.

At least, that's is what I think about "good" forging.

Fly On
 
Dec 30, 2012
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If you had read the entire article, you'd see I did not skip past aesthetic and mini-game forgers... I stated what makes a good forger and included those categories in it. My main driving point though was that in the competitive map forging circle, there's a lot more criteria to be met as an understanding of level design is needed. While what makes a map good or bad is purely subjective, there are some universal tenets that MUST be met for a map to be good.

The thing about elitism in the forge community though is that it does exist, and you don't need to look far to see it. If you pop over to THC and post a map there, guys might help you, but they'll also talk down to you as you obviously don't know level design as well as they do. You'll be given advice based off subjective preferences of how they feel might make the map better, but it's treated as concrete fact by them and if you don't follow it you're nothing more than an ignorant scrub. They abhor upstarts that try to claim peerdom with established forgers... It's pathetic.

It shouldn't be about whether a map is good or bad, or whether a designer is either. The way forgers view maps is completely screwed up in a lot of these communities. It's devolved into judging maps purely based off subjective quality, rating them, and refusing to play anything but the "absolute best". That's not how it should be. While no one wants to play a turd, the whole concept of only playing the best of the best is an absolute farce. We need to change how we go about looking at maps. It shouldn't be "how good is the map", but "would I want to play this" or "would Joe Smuckatelli want to play this". It should be about what the map offers; which maps bring a unique and enjoyable experience to the table. Basing judgement on the competitive merit of a map is redundant, what is more important is how well the map augments the Core Gameplay of Halo and whether or not it brings a factor of enjoyability to the table. We need to broaden our horizons and embrace the fact that map quality is subjective and stop treating our opinions as concrete fact.
 
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Titmar

Le Mar du Teet
Dec 23, 2012
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I think that elitism started back in Halo 3.
Because of the ridiculous lengths you had to go to with interlocking, geomerging, and all the rest of the bag of glitches and tricks that we had to use in order to make a nicely merged, smooth looking, beautiful map... back then there really WAS an elite because of that. There was a definite skill gap. Reach eliminated that skill gap by making forge accessible for everyone, and H4 made it even better.
 

Parker Melnyk

Proficient
Jan 10, 2013
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a galaxy far far away
People, forge is something that a "forger" uses to make maps that the "forger" thinks is better than the pre-set maps in the game. It is not supposed to be a thing that people get ticked over. Sure the mindset of "I'm going to make a map that's better than others " is going to cause an elitist group. This is complimented by youtube forge channels which show maps that they think are good because that means that when they look to compare forgers for their next video it will be slightly biased due to channel maker's personal preference . But that is another great thing about this site; you can make a lobby and spread your popularity as a forger by showing off your maps in it. I guess what I'm saying is quit bickering like little children and go make a name for yourself, that is what this site is for.
 

a bored teen

Adept
Jan 20, 2013
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Requiem
Forge is a tool given to gamers to was made so maps could be changed ,redone ,and built up from scratch. I would say it was made for the creative at heart. Now some are better than others. The elite are there (or should be there) to help new forgers learn and progress from pregained knowledge. I learnt from thfe on YouTube how to forge. Halo however is still halo it will forever be just a game.
 
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NathanP

Qualified
Jan 9, 2013
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Obviously i'm new here, but i think the whole point of forging is just making interesting stuff out of what your given. It doesn't matter at all how you do it, as long as you think the purpose it was intended for has been served, whether competitive, aesthetic, or whatever else i'm forgetting. Besides, this whole fight about elitism is pointless: the only thing that will come of this is that one person will feel they have won, and are therefore dominant, which is just what we seem to be trying to get away from. I've only made a few maps, but each one was a whole new experience or what you can do with Forge, and/or how to truly challenge a person's descision making process (in terms of which path they take, etc.), in all kinds of ways. That's what I believe Forging should really be about, instead of comparing who is a "better forger" or saying that if someone is popular they are better. This may sound a bit cheesy, but this world is actually cheesy as hell if you look at it for a while.

At least, that's is what I think about "good" forging.

Fly On
What you said here should be a title screen while loading a game in forge my friend!